The 5 Types of Intimacy with special guest Beth Darling

In this episode, we have the pleasure of hosting Beth Darling, the renowned author of "The 5 Types of Intimacy". Join us as we delve into a captivating conversation with Beth, where she shares her insights and expertise on understanding and nurturing different forms of intimacy in our relationships. From emotional and physical to spiritual and intellectual connection, we explore the depths of human connection and discover valuable strategies for cultivating profound and fulfilling relationships. Tune in for an enlightening discussion with Beth Darling on our podcast!

Transcript

 You are listening to the Evolve Your Intimacy podcast with Dr. Stephanie, where it is my goal to educate, enlighten, and evolve your intimacy. You can find me at evolveyourintimacy. com to learn more about counseling, self study courses, sex, and the retreats that we have to offer. This show contains discussions about relationships.

Intimacy and sex, and is meant for those who are 18 years and older. Now, sit back, relax, listen up, and get ready to evolve your intimacy. Have you ever wondered why some relationships feel shallow and lacking in depth, while others bring us a profound sense of belonging and understanding? Do you want to learn how to cultivate deeper connections and experience greater joy in your relationships?

If the answer is yes, then you're in the right place. On today's show, we're going to be talking about intimacy. You heard that right. Intimacy goes far beyond the realm of romance, and it touches every aspect of our lives, whether it's our relationships with ourselves, our friends, or even our coworkers.

Understanding the different ways we connect and build meaningful bonds opens up endless possibilities for our personal growth and fulfillment. If this resonates with you, stay tuned as we dive into the five kinds of intimacy, uncovering the secrets to creating deeply fulfilling connections that will transform your love life.

Are you interested in learning more about the topics that we discuss on the show? Head over to ASN Lifestyle Magazine, where you can read all the articles that I publish about relationships. Intimacy and sex when it comes to the lifestyle and the adult industry. Magazines look no further than a n Lifestyle magazine.

They are the natural go-to for everything, lifestyle and adult content. Get your free digital issue today@asnlifestylemagazine.com, and if you have any questions, don't ever hesitate to ask Stephanie. This is the Evolve Your Intimacy podcast and I am Dr. Stephanie from Evolve Your Intimacy. I am so excited to welcome today's special guest.

Today I have got the most beautiful, fun, sweet thing that I got to meet, Naughty in New Orleans, when I got to meet this beautiful lady. I've been traveling so much lately that it's been hard to, to remember where all I'm meeting these, these beautiful people. So today we are going to be talking to Beth Darling.

She is an internationally recognized love and life coach, author, radio host, and speaker. But she has this unique blend of expertise and charisma, which. It's why we, we kind of mesh so well. Cause you know, I have all the, the, the technical knowledge, but I also throw a little bit of humor in there because I find myself freaking hilarious and she is just so fun to talk to.

She's a former divorce lawyer and she made this transformational, transformational flip to devote her career. To enhancing love and intimacy. So she's amazing. Beth's coaching offers a range from private practice for individuals to couples, tailored workshops. She speaks to audiences from all walks of life.

Ladies and gentlemen, today we're bringing her on. We're going to talk about her award winning Amazon bestselling book, love and laughter, sexy, meaningful, fun for everyone. And then her latest book, which I'm very interested in. Five kinds of intimacy. How to keep your love life alive. Ladies and gentlemen, please help me.

Welcome Beth darling on the show. Yay. Welcome Beth. 

Yay. Thank you. Thank you. That's a lovely, lovely introduction. And, and I felt the exact same way about meeting you. It was just, I say, chemistry is not reserved for only romantic. There are just people that you, you meet. And within three seconds, you know, I could talk to this person happily and hang out with them for years.

And you are absolutely one of, I admire what you do and love the way you do it. I'm so thankful 

that that translated because I met you. During a very hard, hard time of my life. My dad had literally passed away two weeks before I met you. And I had to put all of that to the side because we had all of these work trips coming up and I couldn't put them off.

And, you know, it was just, I had this. grief. And then I had the divorce going on. And here you are. And I'm trying to be bubbly and I was trying to be, you know, who I usually am. And you just, you saw that I wasn't probably acting myself and you even pulled me to the side and you're like, Hey, let's talk. You know, I can tell, I can tell, let me help.

And I just fell in love with you in that moment. I was like any woman who wants to help another woman through all of this bullshit that we call life. And you know, the drama, hell yeah, she's, she's quality. 

Oh, well, thank you. Yeah. It's my pleasure to, I say, I think divorce law, people are like, Oh, how did you, how did you do that?

Why did you switch? And I was like, well, I learned so much about, about people in relationships when helping them through. One of the worst things and divorce, you know, sometimes it's necessary, but it still sucks. And when, you know, the heartbreak is when people start with good relationships and they're getting divorced because nobody taught them how to, to keep it good.

That's just ridiculous. So I love to talk, I love to help and you definitely, um, anyway, it, it's a pleasure. Like I said, it's just really, it's good to see you. And I think that, uh, people supporting people, men, women, whatever. We just. If we all contribute what we can, when we can, the world's a better place.

So talk to us a little bit about how you got started in all of this. 

Well, um, like I said, so I was a divorce lawyer and, but the fact is, is before I went to law school, I was torn between getting a PhD in counseling and psychology or going to law school. But it just, at some point occurred to me as I was applying to, um, PhD programs that at some point I was going to have to do a dissertation.

Yeah. And I got to say, I did not know I had ADHD at the time, but I did have this thought that was like, Oh no, it's going to be the night before my thesis is due. And I'm going to be like, damn, I got to write a 300 page paper. I 

didn't do it that bad, but I will tell you, I got down to the wire. 

Oh, yes. I would so be there.

And, um, you know, that would have been difficult, but I was like, Oh, law school. Oh, I could take a, I could take tests. So I did and I've taken several. And, um, but, uh, again, I wanted to work with relationships and people and stuff. And so both do that. It's just the divorce law was hard and sad. So I quit that.

And then it was several years later when I got divorced myself after 23 years of marriage and 23 years of what I call BMS. Boring, married sex that I, yeah, boring, married sex, BMS, I say, and you don't have to be married to experience BMS, but, um, I was like, all right, I need to learn how to do better. I want to know what options are out there.

I want to learn how to feel good. I thought I was so hideously ugly. I thought it was boring, cold, frigid, um, all of these negative things that my husband thought and I had believed, but I looked around and I didn't see people. Um, talking about love, sex, and relationships all together. And to me, that's what I needed.

Um, you know, I don't think we actually separate our bodies from our heart. It's just, we try to tune one or the other out and that doesn't really work. And I wanted the whole picture. So I, um, I opened a shop in Houston called Darling Way that was a fun, flirty, frisky boutique. And that was great. It was my soapbox.

Okay. Um, and I, from there I started whatever I learned, I taught and. Did workshops and helped thousands of people coming through there and finally sold it two years ago because I just needed to concentrate just on the personal work on the speaking, the workshops, the coaching individuals and couples and writing my second book, the five kinds of intimacy, how to keep your love alive.

Let's talk about 

five kinds of intimacy. You. Okay. I'm going to read this directly from your website. I know. Take a deep breath. The five kinds of intimacy, how to keep your love life alive is a no bullshit, pragmatic and practical approach to creating happy, satisfying relationships. It's an engaging read because it's a unique blend of lawyer, like precision, romantic enthusiasm, and personal stories 

sold.

Yeah, that's true. Oh, thank you. I don't even know who wrote that now, but yes, it is actually, I think. I think it's true. I'm blushing, but yes. So I am unique. My perspective is just different because of where I've come from. You know, this, like our past makes us who we are. And, um, and it is different. So when I started coaching people, I was astonished again.

I'm a huge reader. So I'd read the John Gottman's Julie Gottman stuff, the, the, um, the, Seven principles of marriage. And, um, certainly John Chapman's the five love languages I'd read. Brene Brown, not a single one of them had defined intimacy. And when I was working with clients, the lawyer, part of me was going nuts.

Like, how can I tell people what they're trying to get to? If I can't tell them what that is and what to look. So, so what is intimacy? Um, so intimacy is, and damn, I should have, I should have marked this. This is my ADHD, but, um, I will sum it up by saying that it is a feeling. It is a closeness, a connection, um, a sense of familiarity that is so personal that it is very likely to involve some level of vulnerability.

Okay. Okay. So that's the big general idea. Of intimacy. And then from there, there are five specific types of intimacy that I think are fundamental to every relationship, not simply romantic ones, but for every, for the deepest relationships. So the five kinds are physical, emotional, sexual, romantic, and spiritual.

And heads up spiritual has nothing to do with what religion you are, or if you have a religion, spiritual. applies to everybody. And it is the sense, the knowing, the belief that what you're doing. Is you're doing the right thing with the right person at the right time that it is good not only for you, but it's good for them.

It's good for your family or the people you're closest to. Basically, it's good for the world at large. IE to me, it's blessed by the divine, whatever your version of the divine is. Maybe it could be summed up as wholehearted, you know, but it is, it's the absence of any feeling. Wait, I shouldn't. I shouldn't, whether it's because there's a pile of laundry, the kids in the next door, a wife or a spouse that you're, um, not telling about this, anything that just sort of keeps your brain going, Ooh, maybe I shouldn't be doing it.

It's the absence of it. So the absence of. Accountability. No. I can't. No. I'm a detriment because accountability I, right. I want you to be accountable. In other words, that's why spiritual, that's why spiritual intimacy matters because we are, unless you're a sociopath or a psychopath, right? We have a sense of what's right and what's wrong.

When we are doing something that wholeheartedness.

It registers. And that's what it, that, that hinders the relationship. It truly, truly does, even when it's a small degree. So we can laugh off somebody who says, I can't relax if there are dishes in the sink. I might laugh because that's not me. But the fact is that's important to them. And that's what matters when it comes to intimacy.

If there's some reason that they can't fully be present and, and joyful and wholehearted about what they're doing, it detracts from everything else. 

So I have taken, of course, so many classes and so many trainings from amazing experts. So I've had all of these amazing opportunities to sit down with some great, great.

Educators, one of them being, um, come as you are Emily Gnagotsky and Emily was talking about how in the training that I got to sit in with her is, you know, she had a client that only had good sex when they were on vacation and. They couldn't figure out what it was. They were having great sex on vacation, but then they would come home and it just the whole relationship would fall apart again.

Well, as Emily was working with this couple and trying to figure out, okay, well, where, when does, where's the disconnect? When does it happen? Yada, yada, yada, all of the fun stuff that we talk about. She discovered that it was. The headboard. The headboard. The headboards in, yeah. In hotel rooms or, or in resorts.

They're always fixed to the wall. Well, at their house it wasn't, and so that noise was what was making the, the ladies breaks 'cause, and Mileena Gosky talks about breaks and accelerators, and that's what was causing her breaks to hit was because that damn headboard hitting. And so she could not get in the moment.

She couldn't get in the mood. And so after they. Put the headboard to the wall, everything changed in their life. And then there was another one. She talked about, um, socks, this lady, you know, she, her husband found socks to be just completely a turnoff, but her feet were literally cold and she could not concentrate on sex because her feet were cold and that's all she could think about.

And so throughout the course of this, they found, you know, that the feet, her cold feet, what was. was causing her to put her brakes on and so they found ways to incorporate some sexy socks like thigh highs and all of that stuff to make her feet warm but change the dynamic and so So I love how, you know, that is creating intimacy.

And unfortunately, and you can speak to this because I am not a divorce attorney, but there probably have been people who have gotten divorced because of a headboard hitting or because of cold feet or something so silly that could have been easily taken, you know, remedied if they would have went to a sex coach or a sex therapist or a therapist in general, and just marriage counselor and talked 

about that stuff.

Yeah, I think, I think that's so true because then we, we skip over the basics because immediately we jump to the fear, Oh, my partner isn't into me. And if it's me, I jumped to, Oh, I'm not right. I'm cold. I'm frigid. It's my problem because I don't want sex. You know, 23 years of my marriage didn't occur to me to say.

Oh my God, we don't have any romantic intimacy. No wonder I'm bored with sex. No wonder I don't want it. If you make it exciting and interesting, hell count me in every day of the week. Yeah. So that's spiritual intimacy is knowing and wanting everything. And if we remember that, then it just helps us go, Oh, okay, wait, this might not be.

particularly about the relationship. It's something else. So, so what, how did 

you come up with these five? I mean, I, I know about them. Outside because this is what I study and, and I honestly, I'm going to be completely transparent here. I didn't realize the different kinds of intimacy, the different kinds of all, all I get, well, I'm just gonna say different kinds of intimacy until I was in my doctorate program.

That was not something I was taught in my master's program, in my, anything in life in general, but when I got into my. My doctorate program. We had a presenter that came on and talked about the five kinds of intimacy, or I, he didn't label it the five kinds. He talked about intimacy. Yeah. And it ended up being the erotic in intimacy.

Everything that you have honed in on and perfected, he had a general idea of, and so I love how you took that general idea's. It's only available to doctorate students that should be available to the general public and made it available for the general public.

Let's just remind everyone that this is evolve your intimacy and I am Dr. Stephanie from evolve your intimacy. We are having an amazing discussion, but we need to take a quick break. So stay right there and we'll be right back.

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You are listening to the Evolve Your Intimacy podcast and I'm Dr. Stephanie. Now let's get back to the show. 

I, I came up with, I have to say because I was working with clients and because I realized they so often intimacy, the word intimacy is used as a euphemism for sex. And that is so it, it's such a disservice to, to the term, to the way that we approach things to relationships in general, it, it just doesn't serve us at all.

And it was as I was trying to help my clients. Sort through these things and to recognize relationships are built upon so much more than simply sex or simply emotional intimacy. I sort of knowing each other. Um, and particularly. I realized intimacy is not always positive. And that, that thought is pervasive through so much of the reading that we just think, Oh, are you willing to be intimate with somebody?

And that, Oh, this is when you're willing to be intimate, then everything is joyful and. No, I don't believe that intimacy is always positive at all. Um, and that to me was also important. I had to help couples, especially people who have gone through sexual trauma to recognize that, um, that that is an intimacy on several different levels.

And that when we could break it down like that, then we could help heal it. Can we focus on that 

for a second? Oh, of course. That is powerful. And I. I am coming at, usually I have notes when I come into these interviews, but with you, I had such a connection that I felt we could just talk about anything and we were just going to go with it.

And so that's huge. Let's, let's talk about that sexual trauma because I work with that as a doctor daily, that's one of the things that, you know, hell I've went through sexual trauma. So break that down for us. 

Okay. So there has been. In the, however long, I don't know, past decade, maybe longer, there's this sort of movement towards taking rape or sexual assault and simply lumping it in with other kinds of assault, say a mugging, um, and, uh, assault and battery and stuff.

But the problem is, is that when you think about my five kinds of intimacy, all right, being mugged. is a physical intimacy. Somebody is getting so close to you that clearly you're vulnerable. That's why, um, they're being able to take your possessions. So you have to realize and recognize, all right, physical intimacy.

No wonder I'm going to be a little bit afraid when people get close to me. Um, but then when it's sexual assault, That is not only are you afraid that they're going to be close to you, it's that you're also afraid of their sexual response and your sexual response. Because when, when particularly women, when we are assaulted, our bodies are magnificent.

But what they do is sometimes what happens is it can feel like a betrayal because if we're being raped, if we're being vaginally penetrated, our bodies are like, okay, I can't do anything about it. We're going to try and make this as harmless or as less harmful as possible. IE we're going to get, we're going to get what I call juicy.

We're going to get wet. We're going to get lubricated and to a sexual trauma survivor, that bodily reaction can feel like. Okay. Oh my God, maybe I really did want it or something, right? We just feel this shame and disconnect. And that's problematic because then in the future, when we're trying to be sexually intimate in ways that we choose in ways that we believe are positive, we're still fighting those demons in our head.

And that doesn't work. So if we can separate out and recognize that's a different trauma and we have to now go through and we have to dissect each and everything that comes with sexual intimacy. And by the way, sexual intimacy is not simply sexual activity, just, and we can talk more about that, but, um, but then they can deal with how it is.

So for example, the lead up in a couple. recognizing that there was a physical intimacy bond broken. So somebody can't just sort of touch them in the middle of the night without eliciting me perhaps a scream or a defensive reaction. So we have to work on that physicality, the physical intimacy and the approach.

Then we have to work on the sexual intimacy, the approach, the bodily responses wherein it might be that as soon as somebody starts Getting lubricated that starts feeling sexually aroused. They may have to pause and they may need their partner to remind them we're only going to do this if you want it.

What is your body telling you? My body, I'm wait, I'm in control of my body. In fact, you're in control of my body because I'm going to stay right here and you can see every movement that's going to happen and you get to take charge of that and you get to tell me when to stop and et cetera. So it is just different.

It is distinct and. Mostly what happens is that when there's particularly a couple and one of them has experienced the sexual trauma, when,

when there's a couple with whom one of the parties has, um, has experienced sexual trauma, oftentimes the focus for them becomes solely on trying to reconnect sexually. And I don't think that is all. I don't think that's the helpful way to go. When we recognize that there are these other forms of intimacy, then As we strengthen the physical emotion, physical intimacy, the emotional intimacy, the romantic intimacy, the spiritual intimacy, those things play and build upon each other so that repairing sexual intimacy is easier.

But when we discount the others, if we think that sexual intimacy is more important than physical intimacy in a romantic relationship or any other relationship, we do ourselves a disservice. If we think that emotional intimacy is more important than sexual intimacy in any relationship, We do ourselves a disservice.

So that's how I think this plays in this recognition. And that, again, that spiritual intimacy is addressing the fear, the, the lingering guilt, shame, blame, um, resentment, whatever it is that's lingering in that person's head. So this is how it just is easier to me. If we block them out and deal with each of them specifically, but recognize that all of them are imperative and they work together to create a long term lasting bond.

Absolutely. 

And, you know, our bodies are biologically designed. To avoid the, the least traumatic experience. So if we are being raped, a vagina, a vagina owner, a vulva owner, there we go. If we are being raped, a vulva owner will experience lubrication. That's not because they're enjoying it. That's because the body is trying to reduce tearing, scarring, pain, all of that stuff.

Just like most. The general consensus, I shouldn't say most, but the general consensus is men can't be raped because if they got hard, they wanted it. Well, let's talk about that because if I'm fondling a man who doesn't want it biologically, their penis can get hard because it's being around, it's being touched, it's being fondled and whatever it doesn't, you can't shut it down from your brain.

Just like my brain can't shut down that I need to not get wet, you know, lubricate. But just because you're hard and it does a hard penis or a wet vagina does not constitute consent. 

And that's the physical arousal. Physical sexual arousal is different than desire and different than consent. You have, we have to just accept that.

Absolutely. 

Absolutely. And. So desire is I want it desire is I'm asking for this. I have agreed to this. I have consented to this activity. We have set my boundaries. This is what we've negotiated. If it's not negotiated, it's not consent. If it's not, um, you know, something that you want, that is, that is forced sex.

Yeah. 

So, but yeah, and going back to sexual intimacy, talk to us 

about that. Um, So, sexual intimacy, again, lots of people think that it's just positive, i. e., so they ignore rape, um, or other unwanted sexual assault, but sexual intimacy is not simply just the sexual activity, engaging in sexual activity. Um, sexual intimacy could be, for example, phone sex.

Sexual intimacy could be. Stumbling in and watching somebody else have sex, even accidentally, um, sexual intimacy is coming out right for years. We thought, Oh, why is this such a big deal? Because it is a sexual intimacy. It is sharing your desires with People around you or the world at large, that is intimacy.

Um, sexual intimacy is teenagers who are embarrassed because their mothers are pregnant. It's because that's an admission that their mother is a sexual being and children are not really crazy about that. You know, acknowledging that. And especially in front of the whole world, that's the reason it's so uncomfortable is because it's sexual intimacy.

So I say, because I have five children. So these five kinds of intimacy, I think are so important in recognizing them has helped me improve my relationship with my kids. So much. I cannot tell you. So people are like, Oh, sexual intimacy with your kids. That's shameful. No, no, no. So sexual intimacy with my children is that I do recognize that they are sexual things.

I don't want to particularly see it, but I do want them to be able. To share with me when they are having problems in their relationships, even though it's a little awkward, I want that opening and that's what we've established. So they can come to me. And again, even though it's still, it's awkward because we haven't grown up this way, but we're learning it.

They can say, Hey, this is what's going on in my relationship. And this is, you know, can you help Frankly, sometimes I've asked my kids about things that are going on and how they've dealt with it. I have, um, you know, Polly, Polly Emery has come up in my family and stuff. And I've, I've asked my children about this and how they different things and, and how it shows up in their friends, circles, et cetera.

And I've learned from them. So it is that opening to talk about sexual. Needs, desires, trauma, um, et cetera, in a way that is respectful that, um, also constitutes sexual intimacy and for, I had an aunt who was never able to come out to her mother. She's passed away since her relationship with her mother suffered her whole life because of that lack.

of sexual intimacy. The fact that she could never be her full self with her mother meant that everything else was minimized. And, and it's just like, I say, you're keeping somebody at arm's length and that's a pity. 

So when you say that. Give me some examples of what you mean 

by that. Um, all right. So a common one, if we're talking about romantic relationships, marriage committed, long term relationships, whatever.

I don't know how many men you've worked with. I've worked with a lot of men who have a desire and have an, um. A proclivity to wearing female, either lingerie or feminine attire, even outwardly they, whether they do it or not, this is something that turns them on or that fuels their soul in some way that is different for every person when they are not able to share that with their spouse.

That is a lack of sexual intimacy. And that helps create a wedge recognizing that they may still be having quote penetrative sexual activity with their partner, but that's not enough to make up for what they aren't sharing. And so that lack of sexual intimacy causes then a lack of. emotional intimacy because now they're not sharing, um, not only what turns them on or what they need for their desire, but how they feel about it.

And so they can't, they're constantly on guard, if you will, to make sure that these secrets don't get out 

those secrets. Yes. And, you know, as you're hearing, or excuse me, as you were saying that, what I was hearing was, you know, can you really have a true authentic relationship if you aren't being true and authentic?

Yeah. Well, that's, but, but the problem is like you and I know that that, that it's less than right. It's, it's like a 75 percent relationship if you will. And that's if everything else is really good, but, but I think it's kind of like parenting, you know, I have, again, I have five kids. Well, my goal as a parent was I wanted to do better than my parents.

It wasn't until I reached my forties that I was like, Oh my God, if my parents were only like a third and I'm not saying they weren't, but if they were only a 30 or a 60 or 70 as parents, as long as I'm a little above them, I'm thinking I'm good, but I haven't even thought about what it looks like to be an A plus parent.

Like that's never even crossed the realm of my imagination because I have no experience with it. So therefore we sometimes settle. Because we haven't seen what's possible. We haven't, we have no idea. We don't know what we don't know. That's how it is with relationships. I think so many people, so many couples are walking around there thinking, okay, well, what we've got is pretty good.

Cause it's better than my next door neighbors or my parents or, you know, my best friends, but they haven't seen what really can be possible, which is why I say. That people who have good, healthy relationships, they should be talking all the damn time. Um, you know, I admire Dr. Ruth. She was incredible. Open the door for the rest of us to come in and start talking, right?

So the only thing, and it was a limitation of her time, but she wouldn't answer questions about her own, her own relationship, her own sexuality. And I say the problem with that was that what she accidentally taught us was you only speak about this. If you're having problems. Okay. If you're doing okay, then you stay quiet.

And I think it's actually, that's wrong. Again, if you have healthy relationships, talk, tell everybody, Hey, we've been doing this 50 years. This is what we've learned, right? It might not be everything, but it might be different than what you know, and it might help you. And. Instead, so many couples are like, Oh, well, I don't want to brag, you know, my husband's so good.

I don't want my friends to feel bad. And I'm like, no, no, no. You want to inspire them. You're not trying to make them feel bad. You're trying to inspire them and let them know what else is possible because that's what I want. I want people to keep going more and more. Just like with our children, the day our children are born or placed in our arms, we think, Oh my God, I will never.

I will, I love you more than I've ever experienced love before. And yet three years later, I love you even more than when you were born 20 years later, 50 years later, we can't believe that this much love is possible. That's what it should be in your relationship. There is no limit to how good your relationship can be.

So never settle for where it is appreciated, savor it, and still want more. I say more is my, my favorite four letter 

word. And so in your opinion, what holds people back from requesting and getting what they want? Let's just remind everyone that this is Evolve Your Intimacy, and I am Dr. Stephanie from Evolve Your Intimacy.

We are having an amazing discussion, but we need to take a quick break. So stay right there, and we'll be right back. Do you want to be on a ship with over 6, 000 wild and naked friends? Drop an anchor in exotic countries? Explore all the sexiness the world has to offer. Come join me, Dr. Stephanie on the next bliss cruise and allow me to personally guide you to better sex in my play shops, workshops, and private couples sessions.

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In your opinion, what holds people back from requesting and getting what 

they want? Fear. I think fear. Fear that, that it's, it's, uh, that it's selfish, that it's demanding that, that we should be happy with

what You know, I, why did I stay married for 23 years really to a man who didn't like me? It was all fear and insecurity. I didn't feel lovable, so I didn't think there'd be anybody else who would like me more than he did. So you might as well stay with the hell you know. And I think that sometimes we're afraid if we ask for something else, somebody is going to get our partners going to get defensive, fearful, they're going to make us feel bad.

Um, and it's just not worth it. So we'd rather just stay stuck, but calm than seek better. And, um, and that journey, I think, so how 

can the five kinds of intimacy that you're talking about create more passion, romance and excitement in even like current relationships, future relationships, relationships, 

Okay.

Well, starting with romantic relationships, let me tell you, I actually think, I think particularly heterosexual relationships are set up to fail. Ooh 

girl, me too. Ah, it's a whole show if you go on that one. 

Yeah. So I think part of the reason that they're set up to fail is because when we have these five kinds of intimacy, again, physical, emotional, sexual, romantic, and spiritual, before we commit, before we get married or move in with somebody or whatever that commitment looks like.

Then sexual intimacy is key. We are so horny, we are so excited, blah, blah, blah, but, but when we get married or committed that changes. And so I think that men, this, and these are stereotypes. I'm not trying to perpetuate them. I'm simply trying to recognize where we've come from so that we can change things in the future.

Okay. So men are taught to avoid emotional intimacy until and unless they get their sexual intimacy needs met. Right. In the middle of sexy activity, men could say, Oh my God, I love you. I never want to leave you. You are the best thing that ever happened to me. But at dinner the next day, they're just like, Oh yeah, how was your day?

You know? Yeah. It's good to see you. Right. Oh, shut down. Um. If you remember Tampon Gate from Prince Charles, by the way, I talk about that in my book. And I suggest if you don't know about that, go look at it because it's pretty damn funny. Women, we are taught the opposite of what men are. We are taught as women to avoid sexual intimacy until and unless we get our emotional intimacy needs met.

And then worst of all, worst of all, we're taught to then give. Sexual intimacy as a reward, i. e. not for our own sake, but as a, Oh, you were so good. You made, you brought me flowers. You took me out. You made me feel good. Now I'm going to make you feel good. And so we're now, not only do we avoid feeling pleasure in sexual intimacy, we actually feel like it's just a reward system and we're doing it only for someone else's pleasure, which is problematic.

But now think about what happens once we commit, once we get married. Then we flip the whole thing and now we say, Oh no, no. Now that you're married, emotional intimacy is a given. That's a given. That has to happen. Sexual intimacy is optional, especially after a young child, you know, we've had children or, or traumatic, difficult times in, you know, stress at work or.

Family problems and stuff. Sexual intimacy is like thrown by the wayside, like it's trivial, like it, it doesn't matter. And so frankly, men are left going, what the hell? I'm trying to give you emotional, but I can't because you're not giving me sexual. And we wind up with this chicken and the egg thing circling round and round.

That doesn't work. And I say, even if you're talking about gay couples, if you've got two men who are really good at sexual intimacy. But aren't, if you've got two men who are, who are really good at sexual intimacy, but aren't great at emotional intimacy, well, just because they're screwing all the time, it's not going to keep them long term because 

tastes are going to change, 

right?

Right. And sexual intimacy without emotional intimacy is like fleeting. It is fleeting. And this, quite frankly, we could go another subject, but I think this is part of the issue with a lot of sex addicts is it's this thinking or thought, okay, if I have more sex, I'll get what I need, but they're having more and more sexual activity, but they're not fulfilling the emotional intimacy needs and they don't even realize.

What the problem is, um, and so it continues, but, and two females getting together and being really good at the talking and the hugging and yet not having that erotic, um, sexual intimacy as well as the romantic erotic intimacy. That's not going to last either because we're humans by designed, we are programmed to want this stuff.

Absolutely. And if I may, can I just expand a little bit on the romantic and please. Absolutely. I 

love that because I was going to do it if you didn't. 

Oh, good. Thank you. Okay. Um, so the romantic intimacy I say is really, it is, it's not just flowers and chocolate or something that Hallmark puts out. Um, romantic romanticism is defined as like an ambience and energy, a mystery unexpectedness.

So that. I say romantic intimacy is what takes the ordinary and transforms it to the extraordinary. So I say 23 years of BMS, if we'd had romantic intimacy, that would have elevated that to sexy intimacy that was really exciting and interesting. Even if you're just screwing all the time and you're having no romantic intimacy, you're gonna get bored.

So, um, when people, I say analogies. If you think of food, okay, if you're a carnivore, there's, you know, there's seafood, there's chicken, there's beef, there's pork. Okay. If you just do basic hamburgers and pork chop and you know, grilled fish every night, you're going to get bored in a very, very short time, but we can take those four basic ingredients.

We can now add a zillion different spices, a zillion different side items, and we can create. Dining that entertains us and makes our mouth water and builds anticipation for an entire lifetime. Yes. That's romantic intimacy. That's what changes the fact that, okay, one body, two bodies. So even swingers have boring swingers, right?

If even if it's a different person, but they're doing the same things over and over again, it gets a little bit boring. So again, romantic intimacy. And when I ask men what they think is romantic. They're like stumped, you know, it's like I asked them some major calculus problem or something. So to translate that, if you ask a man what's hot, what's hot, that's the same thing as romantic.

It's just a more coarse, or we tend to think of it as a more coarse, a rougher terminology, but it's what's exciting to you. And when we add that in, and it's different by the way for each and every one of us. Um, but when we factor that in and we focus on that, that's what keeps things going. And that's what helps a relationship last a long time.

And again, even in a platonic relationship, if you have one friend and you just go to lunch once a month. But you go to the same restaurant every month for some, you know, for some period of time. It feels good. It's like tradition. And at some point it's like, this is boring as hell. So romantic intimacy spices, Hey, this month let's go here.

Or some people do it like, all right, one month I pick one month you pick. That's a great way to keep romantic intimacy in a friendship. Frankly, I would say the same should be applied to date nights. Too often, the couple is trying to decide them together. I was like, where's the romance in that? Like, let's take me out on a date.

Yes. Yes. And each of you take turns planning because all of us, regardless of gender, we all have a craving for some amount of mystery, excitement, energy. And, you know, some of us, it's roller coasters and some of us, it's the choo choo around the zoo. It doesn't matter what it is to you. Your partner needs to know it.

You need to know it and it needs to be indulged. Absolutely. 

Absolutely. What do you feel like hinders? Couples for, or I wouldn't even say couples, individuals from, and I know you said fear earlier, but when we are meeting new people and we are, um, dating, what inhibits us from telling people what we want after we've done all the work to figure it out?

Yeah. Again, I think fear is such a big category. We're afraid of being judged, right? We're afraid of being judged. And then. Possibly being rejected. People don't realize that, you know, human beings are, we're born, we're created, we are biologically designed to fear and avoid rejection so much so because, because humans need community to survive less so now, but certainly more so as we've evolved.

Um, but that fear of rejection is so, so embedded within us that rejection actually. Feels as painful as physical pain. That's how significant it is. And we want to think, oh, I can just be strong and emotionally, you know, whatever, tough and thus a rejection won't hurt me. But that's kind of, you can minimize how you react to it, but it does register as significant pain.

And therefore. We instinctively seek to minimize it because, um, because that's what our bodies do the same way. Very few people touch a hot stove more than once. You know, we just, we don't think about it. We just don't touch the hot stove anymore. The same thing with rejection. So people, especially if we've been rejected as children growing up, we don't even realize what we're doing to avoid that.

We're just staying three feet away from the stove, three feet away from possible rejection. So that's where I think it is. Um, and interestingly, right, this creates another bind for longterm relationships because When we first meet somebody, we don't have a whole lot to lose if they reject us. It's easier when we have now been with somebody for a long time, their rejection we feel is like, Oh my God, it could kill us.

Right. It will completely knock the rug out from under us. So therefore it's harder to share things that we either didn't share early on or things that we've discovered as we've gotten older because now there's more risk. Oh, I say, yes, right. More to lose. And so for me, for example, I, um, I. Never. I've never had an orgasm without some sort of fantasy about not being in control.

Um, but when I was married, it took me until we had been married 10 years. We were separated for the first time and I got drunk and I don't really drink. I just, it doesn't do well for me, but it took being separated and drunk for me to come home from a night out with my friends and ask my husband to spank.

Oh wow. Right? Yes. Huge. Huge. Oh my. But then. And then he got freaked out. He got freaked out because I'd never asked for this before. In hindsight, I know he probably had no idea what I was talking about or what to do. And boys are taught not to hit girls. So that's a whole nother level. And because of his fear and, and.

Being caught off guard and stuff. Like I saw all of the shock and everything probably on his face, even as drunk as I was, but we didn't do it then. We never spoke about it again. And I left that feeling so shamed that for 12 more years of our marriage, I never asked for a single thing. Right. And I remember that all the time and I talk about that all the time because that's why I do so much of what I do is because if I had had me back then, or if I had had you back then, Dr.

Stephanie, he would have said, Hey, Beth. You just caught him off guard giving a break. It's been 10 years and you've never asked. And it's like, if you suddenly ask a cook to make, you know, Italian food and they've, all they've been doing is sushi their whole lives. They're like, uh, what the hell? Right. Give them a minute to adjust.

Let them think about them. Let them learn. It's okay. It's okay that you wanted it. It's okay that you shared it. It doesn't make you a pervert. It doesn't make you less of a woman. Doesn't make you weak. It's just a desire. And I would have been like, Oh, okay, thank you. You know, instead I crawled back into my little hole.

He crawled into his little hole and we had BMS for the rest of our marriage. Hmm. Death, 

death, sex, death, bed. 

Yes. There's so many. We were having activity. You know, people say two or three times a week, we probably had sexual activity. Others are like, oh, well that's so good. I was like, no, it really wasn't that great.

And from, in hindsight, I realized he was one of those people who just wanted more and more sex because he couldn't, he couldn't allow himself to enjoy any emotional intimacy. And so every time there was sex, there was still this emptiness. Yeah. That's, you have to understand all five kinds. Otherwise it doesn't work.

So 

those listening who are in the position that you were in with your, your ex husband, what are some, what's some advice that you want to give them?

That intimacy, all these five kinds of intimacy have to start with yourself because I lacked emotional intimacy because with myself, because I lacked the knowing who I was, what my strengths were, what my weaknesses were, i. e. a sense of confidence. Um, I couldn't. Stand up and be my, my best self with him.

So the first step, be honest with yourself. Don't deny everything like I did, not just ignoring the fact that whatever kind of sexy stuff you want, or maybe, maybe you like to wear bling and tutus. Like I've discovered late in life, but I was never allowed to as a kid. So I never admitted that, right?

Whatever these crazy things are that you, that you're tentative about, you have to get comfortable with those things. And accept that about yourself and respect yourself. Then you can actually show up more in a relationship and you can give others a little breathing room to adjust to what, who you are, what you want, particularly if it's something new and different to them, either because they've known you a different way or because their background is different than yours.

Um, and that's how we can then. Face the fear of rejection and then even if we are rejected, we can say, but I'm still okay. Right. Even if my husband never wanted to spank me, if he thought that was weird, I could say no. Dr. Stephanie doesn't think I'm a pervert or weird. It's okay. I can be me. He can be him.

We can disagree. But it doesn't mean that I'm less than, um, so get to know yourself. And then in, in my book, um, there are 17 intimacy practices at the back of the book. Those even if you don't understand, if you don't listen to this whole podcast, you don't read the book. If you start doing those practices or exercises, you will actually start creating intimacy either by yourself or with a partner that will help improve things even if you don't understand why it's helping and improving things.

Certainly with understanding, you'll make greater, but we need to, we need to just keep sort of going forward and recognizing never don't settle for what is, I mean, appreciate what you have always, always be grateful for where you are and always be willing and interested in learning and expanding and growing the same way you wouldn't want to go to a doctor who stopped learning 20 years ago and said, Hey, I know so much.

I know everything there is right now. Three years later, two years later, 20 years later, now they haven't got a clue what's actually going on and they don't know what else is possible. And that is not who you want to help get your life, improve your life. So it's the same thing with our romantic or other relationships.

Absolutely. 

Absolutely. Well, tell our listeners where they can find you. 

They can find me at Beth Darling. com and that's D A R L I N G, Beth Darling. com. One of the questions I get the most often is, is that your real name? And I say, well, sort of. So my real name, my Liebling. But Liebling is German and Liebling means darling or loved one.

Liebling is hard to spell, so I just adapted it. So I go by Beth Darling. Yes, it's sort of my real name and I'm very proud of it, but it's just easier to spell. So BethDarling. com. My first book was written under the name Liebling. So there you go, but this is easier. Um, and you can also find me on social media, Beth Darling author.

I'm on a Facebook and, uh, Instagram and YouTube videos and some Tik TOK. Yeah, I'm all over the place now. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. It's really, it's, it's such a pleasure to talk to you. I would do it all the time and fantastic. Yes, we, we definitely should. There's so much more goodness waiting to happen.

They can find my book, by the way, the five kinds of intimacy, how to keep your love alive, my bad, I should have said at amazon. com I mean, you can also go to bethdarling. com and click the link there, but the five kinds of intimacy, how to keep your love, love alive by Beth Darling on Amazon. And you have to search the whole thing because Amazon still tries to, tries to hide things that are at any way related to sexy.

Absolutely. So definitely check out that book. I, um, you, I'm, I'm ordering my copy. You, you gave a copy to, um, my assistant. She's been reading it and so she won't share it yet. So I'm just going to order my own copy.

Terrific. Uh, yes, I will be happy to give you another copy and, um, but yes, I hope that you enjoy it and I'm working with several therapists across the country now, how to integrate, um, The things that I talk about in that book, the kinds of intimacy into their practices with, with couples, um, and individuals, and I'm, I'm very proud of that.

I think it really, again, nobody's defined intimacy in these ways, and it's very clear cut. It's easy to analyze, to understand, evaluate, and then that makes it easy to improve for everybody. I love 

it. Well, again, thank you and thank you for taking your Saturday morning. to spend with me 

and I look forward to 

seeing you soon.

Absolutely. Well, again, thank you. And, um, all of her information will be linked in our show notes. So you can take a look and find her there as well. And yeah, so thank you, Beth darling. I love your name. 

Perfect. Big hugs. Thanks y'all. Bye. 

Thank you for taking time out of your busy day to listen to my show.

I am Dr. Stephanie with Evolve Your Intimacy and remember you are not in this alone and we are definitely here to help. You can learn more about all the amazing things that we do at evolveyourintimacy. com and if you subscribe to our newsletter, you will receive free resources monthly to help you evolve your intimacy.

Thank you again and have a great night.