Love, Lust, and Patience: Finding the Right Moment

In this episode, Dr. Stephanie interviews Laurie Gerber, a renowned relationship coach and co-president of the Handel Group. Together, they explore the question on everyone's mind when starting a new romantic relationship: How long should you wait before having sex with a new partner? Laurie shares her insights on the importance of self-awareness and communication in setting your own pace for intimacy, as well as navigating your partner's comfort level. Drawing on her vast experience in helping individuals and couples build healthy, fulfilling relationships, Laurie offers practical tips for assessing your own needs and boundaries and making sure you are on the same page as your potential partner. Whether you've just started dating or are looking to reevaluate your current relationship, this episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking guidance on the intricate balance of timing and intimacy.

To learn more about Laurie visit: www.lauriegerber.com

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Transcript

Laurie Gerber

Steph: [00:00:00] You are listening to the Evolve Your Intimacy podcast with Dr. Stephanie, where it is my goal to educate, enlighten, and evolve your intimacy. You can find me at evolveyourintimacy. com to learn more about counseling, self study courses, sex, and the retreats that we have to offer. This show contains discussions about relationships, intimacy, and sex, and is meant for those who are 18 years and older.

Now, sit back, relax, listen up, and get ready to evolve your intimacy.

Welcome to today's episode. We are thrilled to have a special guest with us, Lori Gerber. Lori is a seasoned expert in the field of life and relationship coaching. She's bringing over 20 years of invaluable experience to the table. Lori's journey in coaching began with her own life changing experience of working with a life coach.

This pivotal moment transformed her life entirely, inspiring her to delve deep into the realm of [00:01:00] coaching and to guide and support thousands of individuals and couples on their journey. And after navigating a challenging near divorce situation in her personal life, Lori utilized the HANDLE method to rebuild her relationship and flourish in all aspects of her life.

Driven by this profound personal transformation, Lori was compelled to share her wisdom and expertise with others, knowing that she had a powerful tool on her hands that can make a significant difference in so many lives. Join us as we dive into Lori's inspiring story and learn more about her transformative approach to coaching that has touched so many lives right after this commercial break.

Are you interested in learning more about the topics that we discuss on the show? Head over to ASN Lifestyle Magazine where you can read all the articles that I publish about relationships, intimacy, and sex. When it comes to the lifestyle and the adult industry magazines, look no further than ASN Lifestyle Magazine.

They are the natural go to for everything lifestyle and adult content. Get your [00:02:00] free digital issue today at asnlifestylemagazine. com. And if you have any questions, don't ever hesitate to ask Stephanie.

Steph: Alright, welcome to uh, Evolve Your Intimacy with Dr. Stephanie. I'm Dr. Stephanie and today we are with Lori Gerber. And she is an expert in life and relationship coaching with a wealth of experience. I'm so thrilled to have her here on the show with us today. So sit back, relax and let's uh, gain some insights from Lori.

Anyway, thanks for having me. Good to be here. Yes, wonderful. So talk to me a little bit. Okay. As we jump into this, tell me who you are and kind of, you had a near divorce experience. What is all that? Yeah. I came to coaching accidentally. I was looking for a, I was looking for a career change. I was looking for how could I make the most difference in the world using the skills that I had, but I thought life coaching was quackery.

Speaker 3: I wanted to be a doctor. I didn't think it had enough. credential to it, you know, [00:03:00] enough. Really, I really did. Right. I had, I had that feeling, but I was working with a coach because I had nearly spoiled my marriage. Right. I, I didn't, that was also accidental, actually. Nearly spoiling was accidental and falling into coaching was accidental because I really was going for help with my career.

But she, because I was looking for a career change, but she took one look at my marriage and she was like, uh, are you sure you want to go on as a divorced woman? Because you might want to fix this first. And she, she was, her name is Lauren Handel Zander, Handel Method. She came up with the method. I was one of her first guinea pigs 20 years ago.

And she could not help herself but to fix every single aspect of my life, because it's all interconnected, as you know. And so she helped me fix my marriage and there were not that many things wrong, but the things that were wrong were very, very wrong and were headed in a terrible direction. I became so inspired by how well she fixed those issues and, and permanently fixed those issues that I then trained under her to do the same work that she does, which is life [00:04:00] coaching.

Uh, but I developed this specialty in love and dating and, uh, couples because number one, I had to have that experience. And number two, I just ended up. I just ended up being the love coach at the company, just for whatever reason. Nobody else really wanted or felt they deserve the job. And so I ended up leading webinars for match for many years, being on the inside at match, JDate, Zeus, all these other places that needed a coach specializing in love and dating.

And so I gained my 10, 000 hours of experience with that. And I haven't looked back because it's such a fun niche working on love. And sex and dating. It's one of my favorites. Yeah, it's kind of the most important thing. So, 

Speaker 2: You mentioned Match. Can you share with us what that experience was like and why Match was interested in these webinars with you?

Speaker 3: Yeah, Match, of course, like many dating sites, wants their people engaged. And wants their people, you know, spending time on the site. And, And using all of the features and benefits and understanding how to use it and [00:05:00] using it well and talking about it with their friends and all of that. So sharing it made, yeah, it made total sense to give them great content.

And we did. I can't even count how many webinars we did. We did all kinds of webinars over the years. one of which might interest you the most, which was navigating sex and dating. And we did navigating sex and dating for everyone. We did one for men. We did one for women, which was fascinating. And we decided to also allow any gender to show up on any of them because we thought it wouldn't hurt for you to listen in and watch, you know, even if you did not identify with whatever gender I was speaking to, we thought it was useful for everybody to cross pollinate.

So those were some of our most popular. And I was always laughing at the questions people would ask. I mean, the good news is everyone was asking the same questions. And so we can really get to that, but the bad news is they're really dumb questions. Like, I mean, when I say dumb and bad news, I mean like, wow, people are so very, very disabled on this topic.

And so very, um, 

Speaker 2: [00:06:00] uneducated, 

Speaker 3: uneducated and dumb is a mean thing to say. I shouldn't say dumb, but helpless. Powerless, confused, uneducated, like basic, you know, basic things like what is, what is safe sex? Or what, you know, how do I, how do I tell someone no? How do I know if someone's not interested? How do I, how do I know if they just want to get laid?

Like just things that told me that people are very beginner, very beginner at navigating sex and dating and very scared and very confused and very, um, rudderless. I love 

Speaker 2: that rudderless. I love that term. I too ended up in this career field because I'm a, I'm a licensed professional counselor and I specialized in Couples is my jam and being part of the alternative lifestyle.

I had so many clients or excuse me, not clients that were friends coming to me. And they said, you know, we can't find counselors that will work with us. They tell us it's our lifestyle. They tell us we need this or that, or we need Jesus or we need, and it's all boiling down to, we just can't communicate.

And so that [00:07:00] broke my heart when I heard that literally in my area, I live in Texas. So Texas is huge, but they, people were being turned away for therapy. because of their lifestyle. And so like you, I saw a need and I jumped right in and hopefully together you and I can fill some of those educational voids that people just don't learn.

I'm just going to ask, cause you, you threw it out there. You said we can talk about it. Tell me some of the common questions people ask during these webinars. And did you notice any differences between the men and women? 

Speaker 3: So, you know, I really hate to be cliche about this difference, but, It is what, it is what you're thinking.

Most men want to know how to get more of it. Most women want to know how to slow it down without having him lose interest. Those are broad strokes generalizations. I don't really believe in them. I think women can want to fling as much as men. I think there are some men who don't want to take it fast. Of course, of course, of course, there's diversity in every situation, every gender.

No generalizations should be made. But I think it is extremely helpful to help men figure out how they can elegantly, [00:08:00] gracefully, uh, legally, ethically, you know, um, pursue the sex they want and to help women get very clear on what they want, both revealing things they want that they may be ashamed of given our cultural, um, upbringing and, um, At the same time also being able to be clear about what they don't want.

Mm-Hmm. and how they want things to go. So everyone needs training. Women more so often need training in how to say no or no, or, or this would be better. And men more so need training in how to be respectful and listen well and take the cues and show up. Great. Uh, but, but everybody is a little clueless.

And seems sort of the product of a culture in which we still cannot talk about this very taboo topic, even though every single person is thinking about it and doing it somehow. It's just really awkward to talk about, even with your closest friends, especially with your family. So all the people you think that might be resources, it's on lockdown.

The information's on [00:09:00] lockdown. 

Speaker 2: Absolutely. And you don't get it at school where I know, especially in Texas, We're taught that it's an abstinence. We can only teach abstinence in our educational system. We can't teach, um, education. And I think in New York, you guys can teach it, but it has to have an abstinence underbelly.

I think. 

Speaker 3: I'm sure that's true. Because we still live in an incredibly puritanical, slow to evolve, scared, world. World, not to mention country. And then depending on what state you are, it can be utterly. Ridiculous how much there is no education. Yeah, there's no education coming from your family Not that you necessarily want it from your family because we're raised by cave people Um at very interesting kinds of education coming.

I mean my nine year old just told me what she thought sex was, right? So where is she getting that either the internet or her friends? I think it's her friends 

Speaker 2: Oh, please share with us what she said 

Speaker 3: Reliable source. 

Speaker 2: What did she say? It was this is great. 

Speaker 3: I was I heard this through my husband So I I can't Uh, verify the exact accuracy and I, I, I [00:10:00] think when a, when a, when a man and a woman love each other they lay in bed together and then the woman goes under the covers and sucks on the man's penis.

Speaker 2: Oh, and that's sex to a nine year old. And 

Speaker 3: that's sex. I mean that's not too far off, but she, but she doesn't understand how the sperm gets to the egg. 

Speaker 2: Exactly. But there's so many people in the world who don't understand that. 

Speaker 3: That's what she was confused about. So my husband explained it to her, but nine years old, right?

She's just getting her information from somewhere. She's getting some information, but you can't connect the dots without someone really spelling it out for you. Um, yeah. So. Education's failing, our families are failing to teach us, our peers are failing to teach us, and it's still taboo. So we're all so damn awkward, and that's why we exist.

That's why you and I exist. 

Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly. I just, uh, my book was just released, and it's The Clinician's Guide for, um, Practitioner, hold on. I changed the name of it, so I have to re read it. The Clinician's Guide to Ethical Non Monogamous Relationships Working with Clients in [00:11:00] Alternative Lifestyles And it is a clinician's coach's guide.

It has treatment plans. It has everything. It's a complete plug and play. And this was my doctoral project. But it got picked up by Rutledge because there's nothing out there. 

Speaker 3: Well, you're on the cutting edge of a very old, very new phenomenon. 

Speaker 2: We all have it. We all talk about it in some sort, it doesn't matter if you're asexual, even asexual individuals have some sort of sexual intimacy in their own version.

So we're all doing it, but we can't talk about it. And interestingly is when, when these questions were posed to you on match. Did you find yourself thinking, what the hell? Like, come on now. Like, just shaking your head sometimes going, where did that even come from? It 

Speaker 3: made me sad. It honestly just made me really sad.

Because, you know, just like you, I talk to people every day who are struggling real time, in real life. How do I make these connections? How do I keep these connections? How do I feel good about myself, my choices, my body, my pleasure? So it made me [00:12:00] sad because it really did just show me how starved we are for information and inspiration.

So it just made me sad, right? I didn't, I didn't, um, you know, I didn't roll my eyes. I felt like I'm glad we're doing something and I'm glad Matt's just doing something and I'm glad, you know, I'm glad that there's a profit motivation to educate people because otherwise it wouldn't get done. 

Speaker 2: Exactly. And we all know that, uh, It's not going to get done in our education system.

So yes, thankfully we do exist and podcasts like this exist and there's people that can actually ask questions. So 

Speaker 3: wait, can I ask you a question? Every time I wanted to prepare for this, I had the thought, like, I really want to ask an expert a question. I know I'm not supposed to do that. You sure 

Speaker 2: can.

Speaker 3: This is something I keep. Hearing from my clients, because I am personally not on dating sites, I have not had this personal experience. I know my answer as a professional, but what do you say to the woman who experiences men being [00:13:00] overtly sexual very early on in all of her online dating experiences?

Dick pics, innuendos, switching to sex immediately after a few get to know you questions. Just like, what? What do you make of that as a phenomena of men doing that, number one? And number two, what do you tell the woman? Is she, is she doing something to attract that? Is she, is there something she can do to stop it?

Does she need to have compassion for this guy? Or does she need to go cut it out and reprimand him and teach him not to do that? And what is the, like, again, I have my answer, but I really, I really need a second opinion. 

Speaker: We are having such a great conversation with our guest today, but we have to take a really quick commercial break. But during this commercial break, it would be a great time for you to like subscribe or follow us on all of our social media accounts. By doing this, you get exclusive insider access to specials on merchandise and sexy equipment.

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Speaker 5: Ladies, are you ready to take your intimacy to the [00:14:00] next level? And gentlemen, do you want to add more tools to your sexual repertoire? Head over to our website, evolveyourintimacy. com, to learn more about intimacy. Relationships and sex counseling. And if you enjoy our content and our guests, we would love to have you help us grow.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. And so the phenomenon behind it is, well, There's no education. They're not taught how to properly talk to women and to properly communicate and they use what they have.

Oh, look at this, babe. Look at this. Okay. That's great. But what about words of affirmation? What about, you know, talking? They don't realize that they don't have that skill. And if you think back to this generation or should I say the millennial generation, cause that's [00:15:00] pretty much the ones we're working with right now.

And I'm working with some Gen X, but mostly millennials, and they have been accustomed to an instant society. You want, you want to watch to binge watch a show. Okay. You could binge watch it. There's no commercials. You don't have to wait for it next week. You want something delivered to you? It's delivered through Amazon.

Sometimes same day. If you want a date, pick up Tinder. You can have it like that. If you want sex, pick up Tinder. You can have it like that. The one thing we cannot instantly cultivate our relationships, but that generation's missing that, that intelligence, that, that skill on how to cultivate relationships.

And so what I tell the women when this happens is I don't, want women to show men the compassion because that's all they've ever been shown and that's why they're doing it. You have to set those boundaries right up front. I'm not interested in dick pics. I'm interested in getting, in getting to know you.

If that's not something you want to do, then maybe this isn't right for you. And you shut that shit down immediately. I am flooded with dick pics on all of the sites that I'm on constantly. And mine says educator [00:16:00] and co creator or from something from the website. And that's the most immediate thing. And every time I have a, a blanket response and it's, you know what?

I appreciate your boldness and your bravery. However, I am not interested in seeing that. I would much rather get to know you as a person and not what you have in your pants. 

Speaker 3: Awesome. That is a great answer. Um, interestingly enough, uh, in line with what you were saying, my husband who's turning 50 this year was telling, was actually telling a friend of mine, of and me the other day.

that his experience growing up without easily accessible porn forced him to learn how to speak to girls and women. Because, unlike in this generation, he was right on there was no internet when he was coming. So you had to, like, find your friend's father's Playboy under the mattress and maybe you got to look at it for five minutes with your friends, right?

So you you or you had, like, a grainy Channel J, you know, like, there just wasn't access to boobs, right? And, and things to arouse you. So you [00:17:00] literally, if you were going to get to touch a boob or see a boob or anything to do with sex, you had to, you had to get a girl to like you. So in this, in this developmental stage of ages, let's say 11, 12 to 18, he was doing things socially that his personality would never have chosen to do if he could have stayed home with because he's an introvert and he's not.

He didn't enjoy the social aspects, but he learned by doing. 

Speaker 4: And 

Speaker 3: he turns out to be a very charming, wonderful person who now gets laid all the time by his wife. Yes! But we were comparing that to, you know, our kids generation where they have this instant access to porn and just how and then COVID, right, which makes the which totally stunted everyone's social growth.

You know just how, how disadvantageous that is and learning, literally learning relationship skills. 

Speaker 2: It's interesting. My daughter was in middle school during COVID and that's so pivotal. Middle school is so pivotal in learning those social [00:18:00] skills and learning how to communicate with the opposite sex and the flirting and the, oh, you know, the little, the kissy kissy faces and all of that fun stuff.

It's so There were no faces! Yes, there was nothing. There was no interaction. And just getting her, she's off to college next weekend, or actually this weekend, oh goodness, I'm not going to cry. Um, but getting her to even make a phone call was just so painstaking because she didn't know how to communicate with people.

And we're, I think we're going to start seeing that more and more coming up in our practice is that generation of the COVID children who didn't have that skill. And so it's going to continue to grow and get worse and worse and worse. Thankfully, we can have this education out there for them, but it's just, unless they're looking for it, all they're going to find is porn.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's, it's, we have some challenges. Yeah. Anyway, um, most frequently asked questions. Should we go into that? Should we go back to that topic? 

Speaker 2: Sure. What, what, what do you feel like is the most crazy question you've ever been asked? 

Speaker 3: Crazy question? 

Speaker 2: Like the most off the [00:19:00] wall. I

Speaker 3: mean, I think, I don't think it's crazy, but of course. People who have a kink are afraid of what other people's reactions will be to that. So I don't consider that crazy, but I think, you know, some, I recall something about stuffed animals or, I don't know, feet. I can't remember. But you know, people have interesting things that they like and I think that Again, I don't, I don't think any, I don't, I don't certainly want to make it sound like any questions are crazy or bad questions, but I, again, I find it heartbreaking and I'll just talk about herpes.

I mean, herpes is one that probably one out of five listeners at least can relate to the amount of shame and the, how do I bring it up and when do I bring it up and how do I tell, and am I going to be rejected? And you know, we could talk for hours just about, just about herpes disclosure or other STIs.

Um, So I would say those are the ones, you know, those are another set of standout questions that make my heart go a little [00:20:00] more out to people than, than, than the others, you know, the others being like, when is it too soon to have sex? When should I have sex? When can I ruin it if I have sex too soon? If I already had sex too soon, did I ruin it?

Um, so those are, those are some of them. So 

Speaker 2: let's flip back to when something, when somebody, when a client or just somebody that you're working with online and they want something serious, many people, they are so unsure about how to navigate sex. Is, are we having sex too early? Are we, you know, do we want to wait?

When do you wait? Will it ruin a chance for a serious relationship? What are your thoughts on that? Does sex ruin serious relationships? 

Speaker 3: This will be interesting to talk to you about considering your opinion. your, your, uh, experience with ethical non monogamy, which implies a little more, I think implies a little more open mindedness about, well, a little less traditional thinking about sex.

But I, my experience is that nobody has ever regretted waiting for sex. There's a lot of people who've regretted not waiting. 

Speaker 2: Sure. 

Speaker 3: But [00:21:00] I've never heard someone go, I wish I would have had sex sooner. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. 

Speaker 3: Um, I personally waited six months to have sex with my husband. Um, that was interminable. It was so long.

And at the time, the, the idea with, uh, AIDS testing, this was back, I'm old, this was back, at the time, it was like you, you were supposed to wait between lovers just to be sure, and, and I was in no way really at risk, but I was a real by the book safety girl, and I wanted to give it that six month window, and both of us get tested, and look at each other's tests, and then, you know, And, and truly, at least, and we did everything, you know, we fooled around, we gave each other orgasms, it was great, we got to know each other really well.

And there were times I was like, this is crazy, we should just have sex, like, this is, I'm being stupid, I was horny, and I was, I wanted it. But, but, the benefits so outweighed the costs. And when we finally did have sex, we knew each other so well, we trusted each other so well, our, our, we knew how to make each other come.

We We had the communication lines open so we could talk about everything. We had trust [00:22:00] and we had clean bills of health, which was, is really good for stress. So I just, I would never suggest somebody wait six months. That is not my, those are not my ethics or, or even my suggestions, but I, I find it notable that I did not regret that and that it only got hotter waiting.

Um, but I would extrapolate that to a client and just say, for me, If monogamy is important to you, monogamy should be established before you have sex because that's gonna make you feel safe and comfortable. If monogamy is not important to you, whatever the rules of non monogamy need to be clear. The tests need to be current and valid and preferably you go together because you're that connected, but otherwise you can show each other a dated test.

And, and you have to both want the same thing. Meaning you have to both want ethical non monogamy, both want monogamy, both want to be slinging, whatever it is. You, in my set of rules, you need to agree on the terms before [00:23:00] you have sex for best results. Can you have, can it turn out if you don't follow all those rules?

Sure. It's just I'm not putting my money on it. 

Speaker 2: Absolutely. There's enough going around in the world, there's enough negative stimuli, there's just so much convolution. Why compact that with sex? I mean, just, yes. Waiting for sex, if that's your thing, absolutely. However, I just, I don't feel like it is a necessity.

 But, if it's something that is, waiting is a necessity is what I mean by that. I don't feel like waiting is a necessity. I feel like if it's something that you feel you're ready to do and you don't feel pressured and you don't feel emotionally distressed by it, Then do it. Make sure you're following your personal protocols, safety protocols.

Are you wearing protection? Are you on birth control? Whatever that you need to keep yourself safe. But also remember that if you're having sex that soon, I always say this, it's up to you to keep yourself safe because you don't know what that other person has or does. And even if you have the test, you don't know what they're doing if you don't know them really well yet.

So depending on how well you know them is how much you need to invest in that [00:24:00] sexual. freedom when it comes to not wearing protective, protective gear. I love to call it. 

Speaker 3: I think, um, the other point I want to really underscore is that sex is not great every time. In fact, often your first sexual experience with someone is not great.

And I don't think we think of that if we're a drunk or high or really turned on by someone. And so we're not necessarily making the choice. It really is a cost benefit analysis, right? Like, wouldn't it be hotter later? Versus, right now I'm taking a risk that if it's not hot, we don't have the communication skills or the intimacy to talk about it and learn from it.

So I would rather you wait until you feel comfortable enough to talk about contraception, to do it sober, to giggle if it's not good, to talk about it if [00:25:00] somebody can't get it up or can't have an orgasm, to talk about it if it's a kissing, like, All of that crap that comes up. If you don't feel ready to talk about that with this person, maybe you're not ready to exchange bodily fluids with them.

Speaker 2: Exactly. If you can't talk about, oh, if you can't laugh about sexual sounds, and you get embarrassed by that, that is one of the key indicators that you probably not, should not be having sex that soon in a relationship. Right. I mean, if bodily, bodily sounds are gonna, you're gonna have, you're gonna have titty poots, I hate, I hate the word fart, but titty farts, you're gonna have all the weird sounds and you gotta laugh about it, but if you get really embarrassed by it and you shut down, that's a key indicator that you probably weren't in a place in that relationship to be doing that.

Speaker 3: And I would say if you're, if you can't ask for what you want or say if something hurts or doesn't feel good, that this goes for all genders, I don't think you're ready. I think it's a really good indicator you're not ready. And that's, that doesn't make it unethical, it just makes it ineffective and unfun.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it absolutely [00:26:00] does. 

Speaker 3: And then it, and then it, it gets you, it turns you off to the idea of sex at all, right? Like the more times you prove you can't have an orgasm or you can't enjoy it, you start to believe it when it's not true. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Let me tell them to move out of that room. I can hear him talking.

That happens when you have like 15 people trying to work from the damn house. Okay. Get back. I was like, dude, I can hear your entire conversation. You're selling something. Well, I cannot at all. Okay, good. Um, so, I want to switch gears. Now, how do we identify if a potential partner is only interested in sex?

And once we establish that, how do we proceed with it? 

Speaker 3: Yeah. My rule of thumb is if it sounds like an innuendo, it probably is one. If it looks like a dick pic, it 

Speaker 2: probably is a dick pic. 

Speaker 3: And I think that it's so funny because I'm always telling women, you know, would you rather he not be [00:27:00] attracted and want to have sex with you?

Because that is the distinguishing factor of dating, right? This is not a friend's website. Right? This is not a website where you're going to look for a buddy or a business partner. This is literally the determining and, and um, extra feature of this human you're choosing is that you're going to have sex with them.

So it's not that surprising that he's fishing to see how open to sex you are. Plus it's one of the main benefits of having a relationship. It really is. And so I, I want us to not be. dumb about that or, or, or play naive about that. And at the same time, as you said at the very beginning, you have to be able to say, this is what I'm interested in and when I'm interested in it.

Uh, you know, so, but to answer your question, if it seems like an innuendo, if it looks like a dick pic, uh, that's how you'll know someone is interested in you sexually. Um, there are ways you can slow it down. And I've heard of that going well, where the man really is trainable and can take his cue and can slow it down in honor of.

The ultimate goal of getting to know you and earning your trust and, [00:28:00] and earning the right to have sex with you. Um, but if it's not what you're interested in, you need to practice your lines and you can go back to minute 7 or whenever you were doing that line. And you need to be able to give that line verbally and in writing.

and quickly before you start to think all men are scum. 

Speaker 2: Sure. 

Speaker 3: Um, and then my, my other joke is just, you know, the best way to stop that is to go, I'm really looking for a long term committed relationship. That's the best way to scare away someone who is only looking for sex. And the trick is, can you not hold it against all the people that some people are looking for sex?

Can you just honor that's where they're at? You're where you're at. And if you're sending clear signals and communications about where you're at, you shouldn't be offended. Like, two people can go shopping at the mall and be in different stores, and that's, neither is offending the other. 

Speaker 4: Mm hmm. 

Speaker 3: But, you know, but, it doesn't mean someone's gonna put their shopping in your bag, right?

Like, you're not, you're not taking someone else's bag. You're keep, keeping your own bag in your own store. So, um, so the clarity of your intentions is, is [00:29:00] very important. 

Speaker 2: Yes, being able to say, I'm not interested in this, but I am interested in this. And you know, you don't always have to say no. A lot of, a lot of individuals, men and women, it doesn't matter what your sex is.

You have a hard time. We're taught not to say no. We're taught to just, oh, it's a society where everybody gets what they want. But being able to say, no, I am not interested in this. It's very hard for people, but if you say something to the effect of, I'm really not interested in that at this time, but I am interested in this and provide that alternative and you're not shutting them down, you're not shaming them and you're showing them that I am interested in you, but this is where I would like to start.

Speaker 3: That's beautiful. I think another good example of that is if you don't like something that's happening, like something's too rough or too soft or too fast or too slow, or you don't like the kissing or you don't like the smell. You come at it in a sweet way, and you say, Can I tell you something I really like?[00:30:00] 

Can I show you how I really like it? And then you show me how you like it. Fill in the blank. Any it. Whatever it is. Oral sex, whatever. And no man's gonna say no to, Show me how you like it. That's like one of the hottest things you can say. to someone and so different from you're doing it wrong or wincing or gagging or pulling away or crying or scream like, you know, all of the different reactions, eye rolling, you know, checking your phone.

A lot of ways you can try to communicate. But there's a really nice way, which is, can I show you how I like it? 

Speaker 2: Absolutely, and the key is communication and knowing what you like. I'm, this, this is just a random question that just popped in my mind. What is your thoughts on masturbation when it comes to learning your body?

Speaker 3: Yeah, my thoughts are, you owe it to your, if you are looking for a partner, whether it's a non monogamous partner or a monogamous partner, you owe it to yourself to know what you like. I will not be so orgasm [00:31:00] centric, as to say, to know how you, how you like to come, but it really helps because people really like it when their partners come.

So if you are someone who struggles with that, I think that's your, your first, it's your first next job, right? Like that is as worth, as worth exercise, as worth brushing your teeth, as worth learning to meditate, as worth clutter clearing your home, as worth getting a degree. being able to whatever mental, physical, spiritual and emotional things you need to go through to be able to have an orgasm.

I say get right on that. 

Speaker 2: Absolutely. 

Speaker 3: And if you can do it, they can participate. That's the other thing. I mean, I cannot even believe how many people think of someone, some other person supposed to figure out how to make you come if you can't, or if you won't show them or help them. No two people come the same way.

Like how would anybody know? Would you really want a partner that has been with thousands of people [00:32:00] and can know because of experience? Not necessarily. You might want to just tell them how. Yeah. Or show them how. Or, better yet, just make sure you come however you like to come and just let them participate.

Sure. Why are people not thinking about all the possibilities? Everyone's so much happier when everyone comes. 

Speaker 2: Exactly. And mutual masturbation. It's okay to masturbate in front of your partner and show them what you like. Show them how you like it. Show them this is Yeah. It's okay to do that. And that's one of those things where, you know, we're taught don't touch yourself.

It's bad. It's dirty. Especially, I know, and again, I have to talk about the area that I know and that's Texas. You know, we were taught that if you masturbated, I had to go to church and pray for forgiveness and talk to a male preacher about why I was masturbating. And, you know, I never touched myself again.

That's how they 

Speaker 3: got people to church. 

Speaker 2: That's how they, I've never touched myself. 

Speaker 3: Everyone's doing 

Speaker 2: it. Yeah. After that, I was like, no, I will never do that again. And it's okay to do that for number one, [00:33:00] but it's okay to like show your partner. And that's such a hard concept for so many people to understand that.

And I love how you just said that though. If you can't do it, how can you expect anybody else to do it for you? Mind blown. 

Speaker 3: I, by the way, because of how I was raised on media and movies, I thought that the penis just made you cum. Like, if you look at a movie, I was raised on Corky's and Revenge of the Nerds.

If you watch these movies, You're like, Oh, there must be a button and it must be being pressed the minute the penis goes in. Mm 

Speaker 4: hmm. 

Speaker 3: No, nobody explained the clitoris to me. Nobody explained any of this to me. So it took, and it took me, I didn't even understand that I could give myself an orgasm, but that like, I just, it never, I'm a smart college educated person.

I did not figure out that we needed to work together to make this happen because of how I [00:34:00] was. And I wasn't watching porn. I was just watching regular R& D movies that were misinforming me. Porn, I think, would have misinformed me even more. Even more, 

Speaker 2: yeah. You would have expected that great ejaculation.

Speaker 3: How would this work? And then I also remember, too, experimenting as a young woman on men, on boys, really, and being like, I don't know how to do this. Like, I was so clueless. And of course, they couldn't show me, teach me, tell me. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, I 

Speaker 3: mean, I think about all these poor boys who I probably like shaved their dicks off And hurt them, you know, like hurt them That's all kinds of ways.

I had no idea what I was doing It's such a bummer. We have to learn by trial and error and hurt each other 

Speaker 2: Yes, it is We've talked a lot about sex But the most important thing I feel is that first kiss and if your kisses match or if you feel comfortable with that kiss And In your opinion, if you're not comfortable with somebody's kiss, how do you tell them, how do you address that without hurting their feelings?

Speaker 3: I mean, I, [00:35:00] I would turn this question right back to you because I'm very curious your opinion because I think a lot of women feel, a lot of women that I work with feel like if that first kiss isn't good, it means that something's wrong. And I don't believe that. I also don't believe if you're not attracted at first that something's wrong.

I also don't believe, if you fight at first, that something's wrong. I don't believe most of the things that people write people off for are the right things to write people off for. But, and I do think you can go, I like it like this, right? I actually think how someone kisses is something that can change.

You can't change someone's height. You can't change someone's eye color. You can't, you can't, right? You can't even really change how they smell, probably. Although probably if you changed their diet and gave them the right cologne. But, you know, and I think that's another one that people are like, I don't like the smell.

And then it's like, it must not be the person. And I always say, well, at least try to change the smell before you throw out a great human that you love. But I also get like, I want to give some credence to like, Oh, if you're [00:36:00] really not compatible kissers, or you don't like how they smell, that is kind of a sellout when you could have someone who you like, how they kiss smell.

Right. So I, I would be curious your take on that. 

Speaker 2: Well, to me, kissing is It's such a transactional thing, but it's also such an educational thing. So if you first kiss somebody and it's not the way you like it, and it's, it's not, you know, you don't feel like that explosion of compatibility. That's okay.

Because you can gently guide your partner on how to kiss you better. You can't say, Oh, you kiss like shit. You know, you can teach them how to do it softer or harder or more tongue by showing them and giving it to them the way you like it. And simply saying, may I show you how I like to be kissed. That changes everything.

May I show you. That damn sentence can save so many relationships. 

Speaker 3: I, I always have to roll my eyes too when people say he's a bad kisser. Like as if there's one way to kiss, and your way is the right way. How do you know your way [00:37:00] is the right way? 

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, you're, Are you sure? Yeah, the way you like it doesn't mean that some other person won't like the way he kisses.

But it's also. We're not taught to kiss, right? We're not growing up just shoving our tongues down people's throats. I mean, we get told that's bad, especially in kindergarten. But, you know, when we go to kiss, it's okay to guide your partner, put your hands on their face, kind of slow them down a little bit, caress them, gently show them and teach them.

But if it's something that you just can't get over, sometimes that's a deal breaker. And that's okay, too. 

Speaker 3: Okay, we're on the same page. Alright, what else? 

Speaker 2: How about body image? Body image is a concern when it comes to so many sexual relationships and the impact of body language, or body image, not language, language too, but the impact of body image on sex is almost debilitating to some.

So how do you coach people through that to overcome these concerns? 

Speaker 3: Yeah, you're, it is truly remarkable how prevalent it is across all sizes, ages, body [00:38:00] types. Right. Just people's insecurity is deep and not based on the facts. That's one thing I would like to say across, across the board. Personally, I think one's relationship with one's body is spiritual, is about loving yourself, right?

Is about your relationship with your higher power, the divine God, whatever you want to call it, that this body is the thing you were given to have this experience on the earth plane. And if If you don't figure out how to love it and be in communication with it and let it teach you things, and you teach it, things you're missing out on, you're missing out on life.

Right? You're missing out on really a big piece of life. So I take body image very seriously, not just because you feel better if you have a good body image, but because I think it is wholly mm-hmm to care about how you feel on the inside, on the, on the outside. And I think making your body into what you wish it to be.

Shaping it, forming it, working its muscles, stretching its muscles, you know, stretching its, strengthening its [00:39:00] joints, feeding it healthy food, hydrating it, all of the things we do that are considered healthful or beauty enhancing is self love. And self love reflects and is, and emanates from you. in a way that's very sexy to other people.

So you could say it's shallow or it's vanity to exercise and eat well. You could also say it's a reflection of self love and self care that is sexy because it is because it's it's deep and it's sexy. So bottom line, you've got to fall in love with your body to have great sex and great relationships.

You can do that one of two ways. You can make it your mission to to make it look the way you idealize. As long as your doctor agrees that's a healthful possibility. Or, you can make peace with what it is, given the way you like to eat and exercise. Sure. In which case, you must, but there's no other choice.

It's [00:40:00] one or the other. It's either form it into what would make you proud and happy, or make peace and love what it is. There's no, you're not allowed to switch teams, depending on whether you feel like eating a box of donuts or not. And you're certainly not allowed to pick. hating your body. That's just not one of the options I would offer my clients.

Um, and if that is something that's still being entertained as an option, I'm, there's lots we can do about that on, on both sides, right? On acceptance and self love and, and taking apart those cultural, um, those cultural traumas and also changing it to be more in alignment with your own personal ideals, not your parents ideals or your society's ideals.

Speaker 2: Absolutely it did and I also want to add I go to events all over the world and some, I shouldn't say some, most of my events are clothing optional. And not necessarily, there's not, Sex happening everywhere. It's just, it's clothing optional. That's just the world I live in. [00:41:00] And for so long, I hated my body because it was just, I was just taught.

It wasn't good enough. People, I needed to be smaller. And the world told me this and I saw all of these images. And it wasn't until about probably five years ago that I decided that, you know what? Fuck it. Just fuck it. That's all I have to say. If you don't like the way I look, don't look at me. period. Um, if, and I go to these events and we wear all of these fun costumes because lifestyle people are just, we love to dress up and party and have great times and it's not just lifestyle people.

Hell, everybody does. So we dress up and have great times and all these fun costumes. And sometimes, you know, I've eaten a little bit more that day and I have a food baby or, you know, I'm bloated or whatever. And my people tell me all the time, you're just so confident. No, I'm not confident. I just don't care what you think because I'm comfortable.

And if I'm not comfortable, I'm going to go put on my pajamas or I'm going to take off whatever I'm wearing if it's poking me or sticking me because I've, I've gained a little ounce or two from eating. But [00:42:00] the fact is you have to love you and nobody else can say what you love about yourself, but we're not taught that and we're not allowed to accept that.

It's always, well, you could be better. Well, hell yeah, I know I could be better, but you know what? So could you? And it's just 

Speaker 3: so sad too that we, that I can't imagine how many. Beautiful moments of intimacy and pleasure are missed because someone is worrying about their body. Absolutely. Whether it's an erection or their food baby or their love handle or their wrinkle or their cellulite or whatever it is.

It's, it really does make you wonder if the man is really behind it all. You know, not, not, I mean like the patriarchy. Yeah, yeah. The capitalist patriarchy that wants you to buy more stuff. But really, really just like religion wants you to think you're dirty so you have to go and pray and give the money to the church.

The market wants you to think you're ugly and fat and, and go pay, pay money for pharmaceuticals and diet pills and, and [00:43:00] everything, and makeup and gyms. And, you know, instead of Spending your money on fun costumes. Mm hmm. Vibrators, like you should be. Exactly. 

Speaker 2: So many vibrators. So, the last question I have for you.

Some individuals may find it challenging to orgasm. Or, they may feel that their partner either cares too much about it or not enough about it. That sexual satisfaction. How can the ease issues really be addressed in a relationship, in your opinion? You must 

Speaker 3: hear this all the time, right? I do. I do. And as much as I hear I do.

He cares too much, I hear he doesn't care enough, right? It's like, you can't win! You can't win as a man! You have to care just the right amount! So that I don't feel any pressure, but you're, I'm sure I'm gonna come! So, I don't envy men, I don't think they have less sex issues than, I think we all have sex issues.

Um, I, again, I think, I think orgasms are an inside job. I mean, I think I could have the most expert lover and boy, God knows I could prevent having an orgasm because guess what? It's my brain, right? So there's no way you're coming without your own full participation [00:44:00] mentally and physically, right? Like it just, it's just, it's, I think it's a, it's a great myth that it is your partner that makes you come.

I think your partner can do things, but you can prevent yourself from coming. Very easily. Every woman knows that 

Speaker 4: and every 

Speaker 3: man has practiced that too. My husband jokes about, you know, he has to think about the worst football team, but can he hold it? All he has to do is think about the football, the worst football team.

So we all know how to not come and we could all learn how to come. I really think it's our responsibility not only to learn it, but to make sure it happens every time if we want it to happen every time. That was an enormous breakthrough for me. And I share that with my clients. It's like. You take responsibility for that.

Take the pressure off of him. Teach him what you want. Teach him, like, have fun, play, learn, grow. But at the end of the day. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's up to you. 

Speaker 3: It's up to you. I mean, I think a man can wait. I think that's a great thing a man can do, right? Like, I think, I think it's great for a man to learn how to wait [00:45:00] and to ask, you know, what do you want?

What do you like? And, and vice versa. Everyone should be asking everybody, what do you like? How do you want to come? How do you want to do this? 

Speaker 2: Yes, and I agree with all of that, but we're such an orgasm focused society that we're forgetting about the whole pleasure part, the whole journey. And so if you're sitting there asking me, Afterwards and we're laying down.

Did you come? Did you come? Did you have you come yet? What about all of the pleasure I've just experienced? You just erased all of that. 

Speaker 3: I'm sorry, but if you are asking, did you come? You are not tuned in to your partner. I'm sorry. It is a biological response. It's scientific. Anybody who's saying they don't know if their partner came, faker and you know it, or which is very popular as we know, or you are not paying attention.

So if, if you are asking that question after sex every time, please have a deeper conversation about how you relate to orgasms and what they look like. That's one thing. But back to your point, [00:46:00] should we be valuing all of the aspects of sex together? Yes. I, I happen to be the blueprint of sexual, so I am all about the orgasm.

But I respect and include my sensuals, my kinkies, my, my shapeshifters, all of the different types of, of people. and my energetics. So I completely agree with you that there is too much focus on orgasms and not enough open mindedness and inclusiveness of all of the different aspects of being sexual and sensual with somebody.

Again, we're just, it's, we're leaving money on the table. We're crazy for leaving the amount of pleasure and intimacy that we could be having for free if we were just present enough. So I think I'm just saying amen to what you're saying without necessarily having much, but. 

Speaker 2: And I want to end on this point.

Speaker 3: Yes. 

Speaker 2: Gentlemen, penis owners who are listening, If you have an orgasm pretty quickly [00:47:00] and you think you're done and you're like, oh, I've had an orgasm I'm done your partner hasn't yet or maybe your partner can still have more you have a mouth You have hands you have toys you have tools use your tools to pleasure your partner The pleasure doesn't stop just because you had an orgasm and I can't tell you how many How many?

Individuals who do not own a penis have said, as soon as the penis owner comes, they're done. And I'm just like, okay, well, hmm, okay, well what about everything else? Like, we have other tools. Use your tools. Think about the pleasure. Think about all of the greatness that you are leaving on the table. That you, like you just said.

Speaker 3: Leaving on the bed. You're leaving money on the bed. And I think, I would add to that one more thing, which is that If you are a penis owner who doesn't think they can control their orgasm? Come on. Mm-Hmm. , like, get with the times. Okay. , like people quit smoking. Yeah. I think you can control your orgasm a little more.

So what you're really saying is you're not interested in controlling it. You're not saying you can't. 

Speaker 4: Mm-Hmm. 

Speaker 3: and I say the same thing to a person who can, you know, a, a Volvo owner who can't. come. I'm like, no, you can't. [00:48:00] Trust me. 

Speaker 2: You just have to figure it out. 

Speaker 3: If, if, if I said you can't have any coffee or wine until you figure it out, I bet you'd freaking figure it out.

I bet you would. I mean, I'm not saying there might be a 001 percent group of humans that has an anatomical reason, maybe. Um, and I understand trauma is obviously a factor, but I, I can't listen to helplessness when it comes to either. any gender saying they, they don't have a lot to do with the results.

And, and erectile dysfunction, I'll lump that in there too. Like, hello, you need to talk to someone. Exactly. You 

Speaker 4: need 

Speaker 3: to find out what's on the market. You need, there's, there's a world out there, folks. 52%, I believe, of men experience ED. Come on, get educated. Go get yourself the help you need. You are not alone.

You are not destined to not enjoy sex. You're not destined to be a crappy lover. Come on. 

Speaker 2: Literally, come on. Come on 

Speaker 3: back. Let's end on that note. 

Speaker 2: Well, thank you for joining us and can you tell the listeners how they can find you and work with you if they'd like to? 

Speaker 3: Sure. Laurie Gerber dot com is the best place to go.[00:49:00] 

L A U R I E G E R B E R dot com. 

Speaker 2: Perfect. And I will have all of that linked in the show notes and how you can get a hold of her if you would like to work with her. And thank you for spending the afternoon with me. I greatly appreciate it.

Speaker 6: Thank you for taking time out of your busy day to listen to my show. I am Dr. Stephanie with evolve your intimacy and remember you are not in this alone and we are definitely here to help. You can learn more about all the amazing things that we do at evolve your intimacy. com and if you subscribe to our newsletter, you will receive free resources monthly to help you evolve your intimacy.

Thank you again and have a great night.